A Journey of Compassion from CNA to CEO - Sonnie Linebarger, CEO, Cadre Hospice
Summary:
Sonnie Linebarger comes on the podcast today to share her remarkable journey from a Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA), to Chief Operating Officer (COO), to entrepreneur, and now to CEO.
One of toughest settings to connect with someone is in a hospice setting. These are patients at the end of their lives and can be emotionally grueling work. Sonnie shares how she's done it and has made an amazing career at it.
Sunny emphasizes the importance of human connection in sales, particularly in healthcare, where empathy and compassion are crucial. She discusses her experiences in patient care, the emotional challenges of working in hospice, and how these experiences shaped her approach to business operations and consulting.
Sonny also highlights the significance of storytelling in her consulting work and how she's been able to translate these traits to become a successful entrepreneur and CEO.
Key Moments:
00:00 Introduction and Background
04:16 Making Patients Feel Cared For
09:23 Handling Emotions in a Healthcare Setting
21:48 Transitioning from Clinical to Business
26:36 Consulting and the Power of Storytelling
32:19 Selling and Connecting in Consulting and Speaking
36:41 Sunny's Unique Trait: Singing Everyday Conversations
39:21 Conclusion and Where to Connect with Sunny
Connect with Sonnie
Connect with Us!
Transcript
All right, welcome to the Sell By Being Human podcast.
Alex Smith:I'm your host, Alex Smith, and this is the podcast where we learn from people in all walks of life who sell things through the lens of human connection.
Alex Smith:I believe we can learn human skills from people all around us.
Alex Smith:And this is the place where I'll be bringing the very best of those people together.
Alex Smith:And we have one of those people here today.
Alex Smith:I love this person, this person I met through the Outlier project.
Alex Smith:Again, just so many outliers we've had on this, on this podcast.
Alex Smith:But this person, her journey went from CNA to CEO and all sorts of things in between.
Alex Smith:She's been in clinical settings, she's been an rn, but then she, you know, just most recently, she's also been in operational settings of healthcare organizations and then just recently made the move a couple years back to be an entrepreneur.
Alex Smith:So this person's her own boss.
Alex Smith:She runs a podcast, she does keynote speaking.
Alex Smith:This woman does so many great things, and she does it through her unique lens of human connection.
Alex Smith:I can't wait to share some of her skills with all of you.
Alex Smith:Please welcome none other than Sunny Linebarger to the podcast.
Alex Smith:Welcome, Sunny.
Sunny Linebarger:Thank you so much.
Sunny Linebarger:Delighted to be here with you, Alex.
Alex Smith:Awesome.
Alex Smith:Well, Sunny, one of the things that we were talking about beforehand is it's interesting to me that you're only like the second nurse that we've had on the podcast, because people would never look at nurses and be like, they're in sales.
Alex Smith:But we can talk about why that myth maybe isn't true.
Alex Smith:So we'll talk about your career as a nurse and how you've connected with people and what you're selling as a nurse and care and that sort of thing.
Alex Smith:But let me just ask you, Sunny, when you hear the term of the podcast and I say to you, sell something, but sell it by being human, what does that mean to you and what comes to mind when you hear something like that?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, absolutely.
Sunny Linebarger:So that just goes to the heart, I think, of healthcare.
Sunny Linebarger:When I think back to the fact that humans taking care of other humans and the act of compassion and the act of humanity in that everyone is selling something all the time.
Sunny Linebarger:We may not think it, we may not feel like it, but we are always selling something on the healthcare side of things.
Sunny Linebarger:It's selling care, it's selling in the hospice space, a really positive end of life experience.
Sunny Linebarger:And so everywhere I've gone, I probably didn't realize it at the time, but I was selling.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I think it is like Honing in on what your craft is, pouring your heart into it, having a sense of passion and compassion around it.
Sunny Linebarger:And then whatever you're doing, you're exuding.
Sunny Linebarger:Selling that to the audience in which you're providing those services or care to.
Alex Smith:Yeah, I love how you say like honing in our craft and just, you know, what you're exuding.
Alex Smith:That's a word I don't hear a ton because you know, if you kind of think back on it, if any of anyone listening to this has ever been in a hospital or even worst case, been around a loved one that's been in end of life care or something like that, it's a difficult situation to say the least.
Alex Smith:And the person probably receiving that care, I'm sure, Sunny, you're not, you know, there, there are times where the person maybe doesn't want your care even though you want to give it.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:And so you have to somehow show them in a way that, that they can realize it's, it's, it's, it's to their benefit or that they feel cared for.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:They need to feel there's a difference of you thinking that you're caring for someone and someone feeling cared for and safe.
Alex Smith:Can you talk a little bit about how you would approach things?
Alex Smith:Like, I mean this goes to like just, I'm sure why you got into the profession as just a, like you know, even as a cna, just what, how you thought about it like making someone feel cared for.
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah.
Sunny Linebarger:It takes me back to my very first days.
Sunny Linebarger:So I out of high school, I was determined to major in psychology.
Sunny Linebarger:I've always loved the study of the mind and why and how people do what they do.
Sunny Linebarger:And what my mom recognized was it's going to be a little bit before you make some money, so why don't you have a backup plan?
Sunny Linebarger:So in all of my 18 year old wisdom, knowing everything in the world, I was like, I don't need a backup plan.
Sunny Linebarger:She goes, well, why don't you get your CNA license?
Sunny Linebarger:And I said no.
Sunny Linebarger:And she goes, well, what if I pay for it?
Sunny Linebarger:And I was like done.
Alex Smith:That's all?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah.
Sunny Linebarger:So I go through this class and let me tell you, you can go through the training all day long.
Sunny Linebarger:But as an 18 year old, I was not equipped from a training perspective to understand what I was about to step into.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I did it as a backup plan.
Sunny Linebarger:And what I did is I signed up with a registry.
Sunny Linebarger:And for anyone who doesn't know what that is, it is when anyone In a facility or an assisted living anywhere where you care for people, a retirement home, when their normal staff doesn't show up, they pick up the phone and they call a registry and they say, hey, we had somebody who didn't show up.
Sunny Linebarger:I need you to send someone out.
Sunny Linebarger:So you go where you don't know anyone, where you don't know any of the patients.
Sunny Linebarger:Every single day is something different.
Sunny Linebarger:And it's not always the nicest of places.
Sunny Linebarger:And so typically when I would be called out, I would get a call at 5am, hey, you got to be here at 6am and it was going to be in a skilled nursing facility that I wouldn't place a loved one in.
Sunny Linebarger:It smelled, it was a sad environment and people were propped up in chairs in different places.
Sunny Linebarger:And I thought, oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into?
Sunny Linebarger:And then to mention, when you go in, it's not like everyone's saying, hey, we're happy to help you any way we can.
Sunny Linebarger:They're like, you have the heaviest load.
Sunny Linebarger:The people who hit and bite and punch and scratch and cuss.
Sunny Linebarger:Good luck.
Alex Smith:I don't know if this is worth the money.
Sunny Linebarger:It was an absolute wake up call.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, holy cow, what am I doing?
Sunny Linebarger:But I will tell you, and I still remember and I can close my eyes and I can see this woman's face.
Sunny Linebarger:And there was a little old lady, very demented, very far progressed Alzheimer's.
Sunny Linebarger:And she was contracted.
Sunny Linebarger:And what happens when someone is contracted is their hands.
Sunny Linebarger:Oftentimes they kind of pull them into the core and they're really tight together.
Sunny Linebarger:If someone doesn't take the time to clean inside of their hands, you can get infections in there, you can get skin breakdown, wounds, all kinds of terrible things.
Sunny Linebarger:And I thought, oh, what am I going to do?
Sunny Linebarger:No one's going to help me with this.
Sunny Linebarger:So I've got to just kind of take my time.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I started talking to my patients because I didn't know any better, probably.
Sunny Linebarger:I didn't probably know the state that they were in.
Sunny Linebarger:I talked to them as if they could fully understand what I was saying.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I tell this patient, I'm going to get you up in bed and I'm going to give you a bed bath and I'm going to get warm water and I'm going to start washing your hands.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I started just telling her what I was doing.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I started soaking her hands in warm water and just taking my time and being gentle.
Sunny Linebarger:And lo and behold, her hands started to open up.
Sunny Linebarger:A little bit, not fully, but they started to relax.
Sunny Linebarger:And I was able to get in there and clean really well, which someone hadn't done in probably weeks.
Sunny Linebarger:And all of a sudden, I saw this woman who did not know day from night.
Sunny Linebarger:I saw her start to relax and be a little bit more at peace.
Sunny Linebarger:Instead of somebody just kind of rolling you around, changing you, getting, you know, washed up and.
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, well, like, transactional.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I.
Sunny Linebarger:After that, and I can remember this woman.
Sunny Linebarger:And after that, I thought, you know what?
Sunny Linebarger:Every time I go into a place like this, there may be someone who hasn't had anyone come visit them.
Sunny Linebarger:And so my whole goal is for the eight hours that I spend there is that may be the best eight hours of their day or their week or their month or their year.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I will leave them better than I found them.
Sunny Linebarger:And that was kind of the entree into my heart.
Sunny Linebarger:Just my heart was, like, anchored with these people.
Sunny Linebarger:And I thought, holy cow.
Sunny Linebarger:I think I actually really love this.
Sunny Linebarger:And it was hard.
Sunny Linebarger:Some of the hardest work I've ever done at the CNA level, which is like a nursing assistant.
Sunny Linebarger:They're the ones who go in and feed people and change them and change the beds and change diapers.
Sunny Linebarger:Sometimes it's not the desirable stuff, and you're paid the lowest, and you're on the bottom level of the ladder, if you will.
Sunny Linebarger:But I tell you that that formed a path for me, both from a humanity perspective, but also just in my ability to care for people and, like, talk to people about what I'm doing along the way, how to communicate with patients and families, the people that I was working with, that really laid a foundation for me that would just carry me through the entire.
Sunny Linebarger:My entire career.
Alex Smith:Wow.
Alex Smith:I mean, you know, I think what I, like, probably don't realize, what a lot of people don't realize, is that, you know, when your focus is just that, it's not about, like, the tasks.
Alex Smith:Right?
Alex Smith:Like, the tasks are the things.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:But if your drive is like, I'm gonna leave someone better than I found them before, like, that could be anything.
Alex Smith:But then you're realizing, like, yeah, like, that combined with the fact, like, this could be, like, what.
Alex Smith:What are the situation I'm dealing with?
Alex Smith:Like, you're really, like, super aware of, like, your surroundings.
Alex Smith:Like, these people may not, like, have had anybody spend this much time with them.
Alex Smith:Like, the time and the care, like, they can feel that, like, the stuff that you're doing is just the stuff that needs to be done, but just the fact that someone is.
Alex Smith:Is willing to talk to them, to.
Alex Smith:To pause with them, to talk to a family, to explain what they're doing.
Alex Smith:I think that they're like, oh, my gosh, like, you know, the person before could have easily just been like, I'm going as the soonest I can get in and get out and do my job and take my paycheck is what I'm going to do.
Alex Smith:And.
Alex Smith:And when you see something different than that, that's when you know again, that human connection is formed.
Alex Smith:And the.
Alex Smith:The sale you made is just, I.
Alex Smith:I'm going to be here for you, right?
Alex Smith:And someone is there for you, Right?
Sunny Linebarger:It's the experience, right?
Sunny Linebarger:It's the experience.
Sunny Linebarger:That's what it taught me, that experience would change as I grew in my career.
Sunny Linebarger:But it's really about the experience that you're providing, the ability to convey what that looks like, to paint a picture so that it is so clear they can see in their mind what you're going to provide to them or what that journey is going to look like.
Sunny Linebarger:And I think that helped me.
Sunny Linebarger:I didn't know at the time, but that would help me as I would end up moving into the C suite and being the chief operating officer for a national healthcare company.
Sunny Linebarger:That would help me in not just talking to other executives, but that would help me in.
Sunny Linebarger:We would start acquiring companies, and I would have to go out and meet with these other companies and their leaders.
Sunny Linebarger:And anytime you go through an acquisition, people are always keeping a real close eye on what are you doing.
Sunny Linebarger:It's the unknown.
Sunny Linebarger:It's scary.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I would be the face who would go out, because I have a gift, through experience and time and wisdom, to be able to paint what that experience is going to look like and to personally connect with people.
Alex Smith:Mm.
Alex Smith:What do you like?
Alex Smith:I always like to think of, you know, kind of.
Alex Smith:I mean, I know that experience taught you a ton.
Alex Smith:Do you think anything else, like, you know, kind of equipped you either, you know, people growing up or things that you saw, you know, people that you interacted with, like to kind of help you along that path?
Alex Smith:Like, I'm just curious where people kind of pick these things up.
Alex Smith:Are these skills just by experience, or are they also skills you've watched in other people as well?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, well, growing up, I was raised by a single mom, and so my mom cared for my brother and I, and she oftentimes worked three jobs.
Sunny Linebarger:We probably didn't know the level of poverty that we were at, but we would, you know, we would have to go to the food bank to make sure that we had food to last us for the full amount of the month.
Sunny Linebarger:I didn't, I don't know that I fully recognized it at the time, but man, I would, I think, learn a, learn to have a sense of work ethic like most don't.
Sunny Linebarger:From watching my mom, you know, she struggled and she sacrificed and, but always like, it was never like poor us or this negative mindset.
Sunny Linebarger:It was always like this is, this is what we got to do, you know, to get through.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I think by watching her navigate all that she did with really so much grace, I think that instilled a lot into me.
Sunny Linebarger:And then I think I've always had just a sense of a deep empathy.
Sunny Linebarger:I remember when we moved from New Mexico to Arizona, it was a heat like I had never experienced before.
Sunny Linebarger:And when we first pulled in, like first pulled into Phoenix and it was in the dead of summer and I hadn't really been exposed to homeless people before.
Sunny Linebarger:We lived in a small town in New Mexico and I just hadn't really seen like a large amount of homeless people on the road.
Sunny Linebarger:And I thought, oh my gosh.
Sunny Linebarger:So my mom had this little orange Nissan truck, a little two seater truck, and we're pulling into downtown Phoenix and I'm like, mom, they're out in the heat.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, they can't be out in the heat, it's too hot.
Sunny Linebarger:And I'm 8 years old and she's like, well, like this is Arizona and the heat is going to be, you know, a whole lot more than we had been used to.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I made her turn the air conditioner off and roll the window down.
Sunny Linebarger:And I said, I can't.
Sunny Linebarger:We can't have air conditioning if they can't.
Sunny Linebarger:Like that was in my mind, like that was the way to write that was we are not any more entitled to that than they are.
Sunny Linebarger:And so we need to turn ours off and roll the windows down.
Sunny Linebarger:And she did.
Sunny Linebarger:But it was like, that was the weird sense of empathy I had as a little kid that I would learn to foster that again and like polish that as I became older.
Sunny Linebarger:Thankfully, you know, I hadn't planned on going into healthcare, never wanted to be a nurse or doctor.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I think it was a divine path that I was being led down.
Sunny Linebarger:I just, you know, wasn't fully filled in on it.
Alex Smith:Wow, love that story, man.
Alex Smith:So talk to me a little bit Sunny.
Alex Smith:I mean, you, you have this career in, in the healthcare setting, clinical settings, hospice care, to really like emotional Things like, how have.
Alex Smith:Because I know a lot of times I've heard, you know, people say sometimes, like, difference between empathy and sympathy and, you know, trying to, like, take on the emotions of someone fully.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:Like, that's not something we're designed as human beings to do, but we can sit there and listen and understand and do our, you know, very damnedest to.
Alex Smith:To understand someone.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:You know, an empathy.
Alex Smith:How did you kind of like someone, like, seeing some really tough things?
Alex Smith:How do you.
Alex Smith:How did you kind of.
Alex Smith:I don't know if the right word is compartmentalized, but how did you handle, like, all of the emotions in a healthcare setting while still be being empathetic to the people on the other side?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, I think I probably had some blurred boundaries early on as a hospice nurse, because you're walking through people.
Sunny Linebarger:You're walking people and their families through the last chapter of their life.
Sunny Linebarger:And I always saw it, I always really framed it like such an honor that I had the opportunity.
Sunny Linebarger:And you build relationships with people.
Sunny Linebarger:So it's not like working in the hospital where you have one patient, one shift, and by the time you come back to your next shift, they're probably not gonna be there.
Sunny Linebarger:So you build deep relationships and bonds with people.
Sunny Linebarger:And so there were probably some blurred boundaries.
Sunny Linebarger:And I probably, you know, did too much and got too close to people.
Sunny Linebarger:But I think there's.
Sunny Linebarger:I think that is the struggle for a nurse sometimes, especially people who are really, really kind of that empathic or very empathetic.
Sunny Linebarger:But I think then it got.
Sunny Linebarger:I was also, back in the day, it's funny, I laugh now because nurses now, it's like you just take care of your patient when the patient is admitted onto a service.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, somebody else does that.
Sunny Linebarger:When a patient passes away, somebody else goes and tends to that.
Sunny Linebarger:And when there's something happening on the weekend, someone else goes out and handles that.
Sunny Linebarger:When I was providing bedside care, we did it all.
Sunny Linebarger:And so if somebody had something excruciating pain on the weekend, I got in my car and I drove over to them.
Sunny Linebarger:Like there wasn't like a Monday through Friday, 8 to 5.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I think that, you know, was a little bit hard as well.
Sunny Linebarger:But I just, I just.
Sunny Linebarger:I look back on what a gift that was.
Sunny Linebarger:And you, you go through some really challenging things because not everyone, you'd like to think that everyone has a great end of life experience.
Sunny Linebarger:That's not the case.
Sunny Linebarger:I have had some really, really hard deaths.
Sunny Linebarger:And I sat there with those patients, and sometimes they were writhing in Pain.
Sunny Linebarger:And that is one of the most difficult things to see.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, I see sympathy as you feel bad for something that is occurring.
Sunny Linebarger:And empathy is.
Sunny Linebarger:You feel the pain.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, you feel the emotions that they're experiencing.
Sunny Linebarger:And so to sit with someone knowing that you can't fully control their symptoms, sometimes, that's really hard.
Sunny Linebarger:That's hard on the heart, that's hard on the mind.
Sunny Linebarger:But you're still present, and you do everything you can to help them through that.
Sunny Linebarger:And then on the other end of the spectrum, I've experienced some amazing deaths, which sounds so weird, but I distinctly remember I got a call from a patient's family, and they said, we think mom has passed.
Sunny Linebarger:And I said, okay, I'm gonna head over right now.
Sunny Linebarger: And it's: Sunny Linebarger:So it wasn't someone I was familiar with.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I'm trying to find my way.
Sunny Linebarger:It's nighttime, and I go, and I hear all of this noise and laughter, and, like.
Sunny Linebarger:So I kind of go through this back gate, and I see this big table, and it's filled with bottles of wine and wine glasses.
Sunny Linebarger:And I knock on the door, and I go in, and it's the entire family there, and they are reminiscing, and they are laughing and sharing stories.
Sunny Linebarger:And mom had passed, but they all got to be present for it, and they didn't see it as something that was this terribly, horribly sad thing.
Sunny Linebarger:I'm sure that the thought of losing her wasn't wonderful, but the fact that they could be there and experience it with joy and reminisce about her life, and I thought, this.
Sunny Linebarger:This is an amazing death.
Sunny Linebarger:This is a wonderful death.
Sunny Linebarger:And so it's like navigating those types of things.
Sunny Linebarger:And then, you know, I think with, again, experience and maturity, you start to learn to handle things better and differently.
Sunny Linebarger:But, yeah, it is you.
Sunny Linebarger:You navigate the hard ones.
Sunny Linebarger:And, I mean, there were many a times I didn't cry with them there, because that was the one thing I was told in training for hospice, was you can.
Sunny Linebarger:You can console them, but they shouldn't be consoling you.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, you always want to make sure that you're present for them.
Sunny Linebarger:So there were many times as soon as I closed that door on the way out to my car, I was bawling because, you know, you may.
Sunny Linebarger:I may have taken care of this person and seen them five to seven times a week for the last four months.
Sunny Linebarger:And you build relationships with those people.
Sunny Linebarger:And so you do you do kind of grieve in your own way, but at the same time, you know, again, I think my faith allows me to believe that it's not a.
Sunny Linebarger:It's not a terrible thing on the other side of it.
Alex Smith:Yeah.
Alex Smith:Wow.
Alex Smith:I mean, you know, like, I just think the repetition of seeing, like, the different sides of things, and that teaches you a whole lot.
Alex Smith:I mean, you know, it's how to console people.
Alex Smith:It's not getting, you know, like, setting boundaries and things like that.
Alex Smith:But I like that distinction of, you know, feeling bad for someone versus, like, trying to, you know, sit with them and feel for them or feel, you know, kind of what they're.
Alex Smith:You can bring back in your own experiences, you know, emotions that they're feeling.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:And try to sit and understand them.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:So tell me a little bit.
Alex Smith:So you go to this.
Alex Smith:You go from this really intense, emotional, like, healthcare setting to now all of a sudden, okay, I'm going to get into the business side of things, and not having any real background in that or training and operations or anything like that, but someone gives you a shot.
Alex Smith:Tell me, you know, kind of, what are you.
Alex Smith:What are the skills you ended up taking with you into to that setting, and what did that look like when you were, you know, first starting out and learning that?
Alex Smith:Because I feel like a lot of people may not kind of realize how transferable some of those skills really are to maybe a boardroom or something.
Sunny Linebarger:Right.
Sunny Linebarger:I really prided myself on being an expert on the clinical side of things, but that was really.
Sunny Linebarger:I knew that, and I knew it well.
Sunny Linebarger:But as far as anything outside of that, I didn't really know what the rest of the business entailed.
Sunny Linebarger:And so when I.
Sunny Linebarger:There was an operations position open, I thought, I really want to learn more about the business.
Sunny Linebarger:How does.
Sunny Linebarger:How does all of this stay afloat?
Sunny Linebarger:How do all these departments work together?
Sunny Linebarger:I know what it's like to oversee the clinical side of things or to provide that patient care, but how does the rest of the business work?
Sunny Linebarger:And so I went in, I ended up getting an operations role.
Sunny Linebarger:No reason other than I think probably I went in and said, hey, I'm super interested in this.
Sunny Linebarger:I will say up front, I have no operations background whatsoever, but one thing I will tell you is I will run circles around anyone else who goes for this role.
Sunny Linebarger:And, you know, sometimes it's just about putting yourself out there and betting on yourself.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I did that.
Sunny Linebarger:I ended up getting the role and moved into operations, which was really overseeing instead of just kind of the clinical line of or arm of the business was really overseeing everything, Right?
Sunny Linebarger:So from a financial perspective, having P and L responsibility.
Sunny Linebarger:And the funny thing as I look back now is going over a set of P&L's and analyzing it today is like, one of my favorite things.
Sunny Linebarger:It was my biggest fear moving into operations was I had no idea how to read a P and L.
Sunny Linebarger:What did the financials, what did it mean?
Sunny Linebarger:And so my mentor at the time, I said, hey, this is my biggest fear.
Sunny Linebarger:And he kind of chuckles and he's like, you know, I can walk you through this in an hour.
Sunny Linebarger:And he goes, but it's funny that you think that's going to be your biggest challenge.
Sunny Linebarger:And so it was really about learning how all the elements work together, Learning and conveying how, let's say.
Sunny Linebarger:And again, this almost comes back to that selling side of things.
Sunny Linebarger:So clinical never thinks that they have a sales hat on.
Sunny Linebarger:So they think, hey, our side of the world is to care for patients.
Sunny Linebarger:But at the end of the day, yeah, you have patients who are taking medications that we pay for.
Sunny Linebarger:And so that's actually a line item on the P and L.
Sunny Linebarger:And so do you feel like you're responsible for that?
Sunny Linebarger:Do you feel like it's like all of these things that you can weave in and teaching them and conveying it in a different way allows them to recognize, okay, hey, maybe I do have some more responsibility outside of just this part.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I would learn finance, I would learn sales, started going out with some of the salespeople, started even training some of the salespeople.
Sunny Linebarger:Funny again, to Ellen, never thought, I can't sell.
Sunny Linebarger:I don't sell.
Sunny Linebarger:That's not what I do.
Sunny Linebarger:And today I go around and I teach a lot of sales and marketing for hospices throughout the country, and it's all of those.
Sunny Linebarger:But it's like really taking in the lessons and being able to absorb them and fully understand what they mean to the different parts of the business.
Sunny Linebarger:Right.
Sunny Linebarger:And so how to.
Sunny Linebarger:If clinical and sales can come together, what does that look like?
Sunny Linebarger:And what can everybody learn out of that?
Sunny Linebarger:Operations, you know, all of these things.
Sunny Linebarger:And so it's learning to pull the levers on how you need to make a change in the business, and how does that impact the rest of the departments in the business and then getting everybody.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, I think as I grew in my career, it was about learning how to cast a really bold vision.
Sunny Linebarger:And when I had my clinical hat on, only I would have never thought about a vision.
Sunny Linebarger:But as I moved into operations, then it was like, okay, I need to cast a bold vision and I need to sell it so well and paint that picture so clear that other people it's not, they don't even know if it's possible because it hasn't happened yet.
Sunny Linebarger:Right.
Sunny Linebarger:It's a future that doesn't yet exist.
Sunny Linebarger:And so if I can paint that really clear to them, they're going to want to be on board and lock arms with me to execute and make this vision happen.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I think it's, it's about weaving in all of those things together.
Alex Smith:Yeah, I like how you say like just making it clear and asking people, like I think everybody can ask themselves if they don't think they're, that they're in sales.
Alex Smith:Like ask the, you know, what do I do on my day to day that affects the business?
Alex Smith:You know, they affects the profit or loss margin of this business.
Alex Smith:You know, even just the tasks of what I do in my day or what, you know, products I'm contributing to that other people are selling.
Alex Smith:You know, maybe like have a quota to sell for.
Alex Smith:Like there's always something that you're doing that's affecting downstream, you know, cash changing hands, let's say.
Alex Smith:So I like that kind of view of it, like asking those kinds of questions.
Alex Smith:What are some of the things like even now before you became an entrepreneur you were consulting and maybe you still do.
Alex Smith:Yeah, consulting, you know, hospices and health care organizations.
Alex Smith:I'd love to know kind of what are some of those us, you know, what are some of the key things that you're kind of training like a sales team at it, like say, you know.
Alex Smith:Yeah, a healthcare org or hospice on.
Alex Smith:What are some of the things you think that they appreciate the most or they learn the most from somebody?
Alex Smith:Like with your background, with a clinical setting and you know, COO operations setting, what do you think that they're taking away the most from?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, a lot of times it's really about having, it's a fresh set of eyes coming in and taking a look.
Sunny Linebarger:So I work with small and medium sized hospices all over the country and it's anywhere from clinical to operations to sales.
Sunny Linebarger:But a lot recently has been focused around sales and so that may look like going in and talking about strategic growth.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, a lot of these companies, the really surprising thing is there isn't a strategic plan, there isn't a real growth plan in place.
Sunny Linebarger:It's like, well, we hired these people, they had previous relationships and we're kind of just Going with that.
Sunny Linebarger:Well, what does that mean?
Sunny Linebarger:Right?
Sunny Linebarger:And what is that yielding your business thus far?
Sunny Linebarger:Or can we put a little bit more structure around this and allow for it to be something with a whole lot more intention?
Sunny Linebarger:Right.
Sunny Linebarger:If somebody has a book of business of 50 accounts and they're randomly going out with no regular cadence or intention set, like oh, I'll just, I'm on this side of town so I'll go see this person.
Sunny Linebarger:No, like let's build a schedule and let's have pre call planning.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, it really, it's, it's just like any other sales role.
Sunny Linebarger:Like let's be really focused on what, what is that desired outcome.
Sunny Linebarger:And so it's really getting like strategic around what their growth plan is and having them put a plan and process into place.
Sunny Linebarger:And then when they do that, a lot of it is really about like the engagement and the communication of that salesperson.
Sunny Linebarger:And so the most painful thing yet the most productive thing you can do is role play.
Sunny Linebarger:And people absolutely hate it.
Sunny Linebarger:They hate role playing and I always hated role playing.
Sunny Linebarger:But I will tell you, if you push through the uncomfortability in role playing, light bulbs, come on, you get better at what you do.
Sunny Linebarger:It's like what we were talking about before we hit record, which is putting the reps in and what we do.
Sunny Linebarger:Being willing to suck at something for long enough to get better at it.
Sunny Linebarger:And if you are willing to put in the work and start out and not have great conversations, but then you're able to level up your conversations a little bit or by working with me you're able to say oh, okay, I didn't, like I was never asking those questions.
Sunny Linebarger:Questions I didn't.
Sunny Linebarger:And you're not getting past the gatekeeper either.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, maybe let's, let's try this and let me know how it works.
Sunny Linebarger:Or I'll even go out on site and I'll observe their conversations in person and then I provide feedback and guidance.
Sunny Linebarger:I may, I may interject a little bit in that like in the present moment.
Sunny Linebarger:And it's really get about getting them to think differently.
Sunny Linebarger:Because sometimes someone who comes in to hospice as a salesperson, selling an end of life experience is not always the easiest thing.
Sunny Linebarger:And if you don't do it with a sense of compassion and you do it with like the kind of schmucky sales like you're going to get thrown out on your ear.
Sunny Linebarger:Right?
Sunny Linebarger:Because that's not what people want.
Sunny Linebarger:It's all about the fundamentals of sales.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, they want to like, know and trust you.
Sunny Linebarger:And if they can like know and trust you and build a relationship with you, you're going to build up their confidence.
Sunny Linebarger:And after building up their confidence, because they sent you a referral for a patient who needed care and you did, you did right by them and you got, you know, the team out and they provided a great experience, they're going to remember that and that's going to build their confidence.
Sunny Linebarger:And so the next time that situation comes up and they say, hmm, I know there's a hundred hospices to refer to, but I had an experience with this person and so I'm going to call them.
Sunny Linebarger:And that's really what sets you apart.
Sunny Linebarger:And so it's like, it's really going over some of the fundamentals.
Sunny Linebarger:But sometimes people get put into roles and it's like they don't get that fundamental.
Sunny Linebarger:Basic one on one sales training.
Alex Smith:Yeah.
Alex Smith:I always love to say, like every call you have with the client or every time you're in front of someone is a chance to either build trust or erode it.
Alex Smith:You know, and if you can build trust and you can build it over time, it can take, you know, years to build it or months or weeks, but you know, it can take just one little thing, thing or one thing to really erode it and take it away.
Alex Smith:So doing that, building confidence, when people are confident in you, they trust you and like you say, they think about you and they know that, yeah, you would know that you have their back and that they are somebody that you can, they'd be willing to give business to and they want to because they know that you're an extension of them in that way.
Alex Smith:Tell me before we end off here, anybody that's listening that's thinking of, okay, maybe I want to do something on the side or that's a big jump to, okay, wait, wait.
Alex Smith:This woman is a cna, then she's a nurse and then a coo.
Alex Smith:And then now she's just doing all these good things and now she's running her own business where she's consulting.
Alex Smith:What does that look like for you today?
Alex Smith:Like, how are you?
Alex Smith:It's probably using the same things, but maybe it's.
Alex Smith:Talk to me about, in what you do today, Sunny, as a consultant and speaker, how are you?
Alex Smith:Like, what does it look like to sell and connect to people in this way and what you're doing today?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, I think the base of it is taking the experience.
Sunny Linebarger:So I've been in this industry for 20, almost 25 years.
Sunny Linebarger:And in that period of time, I have garnered a lot of stories, and those were experiences that I had.
Sunny Linebarger:And I think so much of what I do today, especially around keynote speaking, is storytelling.
Sunny Linebarger:And it is being able to describe with such intensity an experience that I had to the point where it actually causes emotional reaction from someone else as if they were experiencing it themselves.
Sunny Linebarger:And I think the same goes for consulting.
Sunny Linebarger:So much of that is someone's calling me because they've seen the trajectory of my career and they've seen what I've done, and so they may want to grow and scale their business.
Sunny Linebarger:And so, okay, hey, you have this robust background, but usually that first call is like, here's what I need.
Sunny Linebarger:What can you do for.
Sunny Linebarger:For me?
Sunny Linebarger:Right.
Sunny Linebarger:It goes back to that same element of storytelling.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, here are the things that I've experienced.
Sunny Linebarger:Here are the things that haven't gone well.
Sunny Linebarger:Here's the lessons I've learned.
Sunny Linebarger:And so today, I do hospice consulting.
Sunny Linebarger:I do executive coaching.
Sunny Linebarger:Again, like, it is all about the experiences that I've garnered.
Sunny Linebarger:And I've been coaching people for probably most of my career, whereas, you know, I can now today kind of set that apart and focus on executives and high performance coaching.
Sunny Linebarger:And it's through those experiences and sharing those stories.
Sunny Linebarger:And so I think it all comes down to almost like that ability to tell a story, to convey something to someone where really they want to buy it.
Sunny Linebarger:Right.
Sunny Linebarger:And that may be your service, that may be having you come speak, and then I think the same thing.
Sunny Linebarger:And all of these things are transferable and translatable skills.
Sunny Linebarger:It's the skill set that you build up.
Sunny Linebarger:You put all these things in your toolbox over your career, and sometimes you may not always pull out this tool, but you have it there.
Sunny Linebarger:And so it's this, you know, it's this wide variety of diverse tools that you can use to create an experience.
Sunny Linebarger:If it's consulting, the experience that I want to go in is creating relationships, creating accountability, radical responsibility, and helping them cast a big vision and then put the process in place to execute on that, get to that desired outcome.
Sunny Linebarger:Same thing with coaching, with the keynote.
Sunny Linebarger:I want to provide an experience to them where they have tangible takeaways that they can implement stories that they can, you know, resonate with.
Sunny Linebarger:And then the podcast, same thing.
Sunny Linebarger:All of those elements kind of come to come to light on the podcast in either the sharing of my stories or bringing guests on to highlight their stories.
Alex Smith:Yeah, I mean, you know, I just, I love the, like, when you say something like, you know, it's all about, like, how.
Alex Smith:How do you convey, you know, the value, the connection, the experience.
Alex Smith:Right.
Alex Smith:Like you're thinking, really thinking about that.
Alex Smith:And I, when I listen to you and the podcast, same sort of thing.
Alex Smith:It's like making guests feel comfortable making, you know, your, you know, back in.
Alex Smith:When you were doing it in a clinical setting, making your patients feel comfortable, making, you know, new potential clients feel comfortable in wanting to continue working with you because they can feel that.
Alex Smith:Because you're conveying that to them in a way that they can, you know, clearly understand.
Alex Smith:Clearly understand.
Alex Smith:You're painting a picture and so doing those things.
Alex Smith:So, yeah, that's what I kind of take away from kind of all the things that you said, Sunny.
Alex Smith:So myself, I'll go back and listen to this and pick up some things too, in my sales career and what I do.
Alex Smith:I'm curious.
Alex Smith:Like, as we get to the end, Sunny, this is all about selling by being human.
Alex Smith:So we all have these unique things.
Alex Smith:You say things very similar to other guests I've had, but in a slightly different way.
Alex Smith:And so this is something about you, Sunny.
Alex Smith:And so it's just a fun question I ask every guest.
Alex Smith:And so, Sunny, if I ask your kids, your closest people to your family, something about Sunny, what is just something that is so totally Sunny.
Alex Smith:It's maybe something that would only happen to Sunny.
Alex Smith:It's just something that only Sunny does.
Alex Smith:It's something that would only and could only happened to Sunny.
Alex Smith:What's something that they would tell me?
Alex Smith:Maybe something you do.
Alex Smith:A thing that happened to you.
Alex Smith:What's.
Alex Smith:What's something that they may tell me that nobody else but Sunny does?
Sunny Linebarger:The first thing that comes to mind is funny.
Sunny Linebarger:But my kids, my kids probably, and my husband would tell you if someone says something and it somehow is really close to, like the line in a song, that's it.
Sunny Linebarger:I will belt out singing that song.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, it's just.
Sunny Linebarger:And it's funny and it's in the moment, but, like, all of a sudden they say something and this light bulb comes on in my head that it's a song lyric.
Sunny Linebarger:And then I'm just shouting that song out.
Sunny Linebarger:So, yeah, so that's.
Sunny Linebarger:That's something that, you know, whether we're out, whether we're in the kitchen, if someone says something and it has a similarity to a song line on Belt Mountain Song.
Alex Smith:Give.
Alex Smith:Give us an example.
Alex Smith:You got it.
Alex Smith:You can't leave us hanging.
Alex Smith:Like, what's something?
Alex Smith:What's a song?
Alex Smith:A recent song that I would have heard Sunny, Sunny singing In the house or maybe just out in the wild.
Sunny Linebarger:You know, I mean, it could be like, anything.
Sunny Linebarger:Like, you know, my kids will say something.
Sunny Linebarger:I'm like, oh, are you gonna survive?
Sunny Linebarger:And they're like, I'll survive.
Sunny Linebarger:I'm like, oh, no, Noah.
Sunny Linebarger:I will survive.
Alex Smith:All right.
Sunny Linebarger:It's just something that my brain goes off and the crazy craziness comes out.
Alex Smith:Mom, stop it.
Sunny Linebarger:I know.
Sunny Linebarger:Why do you always have to do that?
Sunny Linebarger:Mom, I have two boys, 16 and 12, and so they will just say they love when I do it, but I don't know.
Alex Smith:Just, like, Just shake that off.
Alex Smith:What?
Alex Smith:Shake it off, Shake it off, shake it off.
Alex Smith:All right, all right.
Alex Smith:So, Sunny, love talking to you.
Alex Smith:Where can people just connect with you and just learn more about what you do and find you?
Sunny Linebarger:Yeah, absolutely.
Sunny Linebarger:I probably spend most of my time on LinkedIn, so feel free to connect there.
Sunny Linebarger:My website is evokegreatness.com.
Sunny Linebarger:you can learn more about me there.
Sunny Linebarger:And then my podcast is called Evoke Greatness as well, and that's on all podcast platforms.
Sunny Linebarger:I'm on Instagram and TikTok.
Sunny Linebarger:Probably have a little bit less of a presence there, but on those channels.
Sunny Linebarger:So, yeah, I would love to connect with anyone who would like to.
Alex Smith:Awesome.
Alex Smith:Thank you.
Alex Smith:Thank you.
Alex Smith:Thank you, Sunny.
Alex Smith:It was a great podcast, and I.
Alex Smith:I agree.
Alex Smith:Just follow her.
Alex Smith:Go find her, whatever you do.
Alex Smith:She's.
Alex Smith:You learn a ton from her.
Alex Smith:So thank you.
Alex Smith:Thank you.
Alex Smith:Thank you, Sunny, for coming on today.
Sunny Linebarger:Absolutely.
Sunny Linebarger:My pleasure.
Sunny Linebarger:Thanks for having me, Alex.
Alex Smith:Hey, gang, this is Alex.
Alex Smith:Thank you so much for making it to the end.
Alex Smith:If you heard a quote you liked or got a little bit of value, drop me a line or a comment.
Alex Smith:It means the world to me.
Alex Smith:We have great human beings throughout all walks of life every single week who sell through the lens of human connection.
Alex Smith:And I'll see you on the next episode of Sell by Being Human.
Alex Smith:Thank you.
Alex Smith:Hey, gang, this is Alex.
Alex Smith:Thank you so much for making it to the end.
Alex Smith:If you heard a quote you liked or got a little bit of value, drop me a line or a comment.
Alex Smith:It'd be means the world to me.
Alex Smith:We have great human beings throughout all walks of life every single week who sell through the lens of human connection.
Alex Smith:And I'll see you on the next episode of Sell by Being Human.
Alex Smith:Thank you.
